A new take of the gold economy

As all of you probably know, the economy in most fantasy worlds i a bit wonky. No, really! What I mean is that even though there are more precious metals than just gold, all the prices are in gold and it is what everything is compared to.

Those who like to get away from the gold inflation usually turn to a silver standard instead. But, I think this just postpones the problem. After a bit longer you will once again find that rich enough adventurers just ignore those piles of silver and copper and whatnot. Weight compared to value is not good enough.

I remember when I played D&D 4, that I felt that when we got the spoils in gold, it was always a bit of a let down. Somehow the sword and sorcery trained mind of me wanted heaps of gold and fistfuls of jewels, to be squandered on wine and women until the next adventure, of course.

Could you maybe have both?

How about you bring back the rule that gaining a level takes training? I mean the kind you have to pay for. In gold.

So what? Well, bear with me. Imagine a silver standard. Now, imagine the idea that nobody do silver for gold exchange.

Why? Well. I haven't figured that out yet. But, imagine you finding a chest filled with thousands of silvers. Back in town you repair your armour (you do use the rules for ablative armour, don't you?) and throw a feast for everyone in the tavern. Fun is had by everyone. Next time you go on adventuring you are broke, but manage to find a few ancient coins in gold. Now you can actually train and use those XP you have gotten on your last three hauls bringing up thousands of silvers, spent on carousing (you do use Jeff Rients carousing table, don't you?).

If you figure out a in world rationale for the set up above, let me know. I like the idea, though.

How to get XP

Today I read a short note about a groovy house rule, where you got XP for inflicting and receiving hits. Only. (I wonder where that link is gone?) This got me thinking about way back when I was playing MERP/Rolemaster. In MERP/RM you get XP for each mile travelled, for spells cast and for maneuvers rolled for. It also had that pet hate of mine, XP for delivering the killing blow. In group that meant an insane rush when the monster stared to stumble and become stunned. Realistic maybe, but cowardly. It felt like you got XP for just about everything and it was quite a book keeping effort.

What can you give out XP for that makes sense? It will affect play, like XP for gold does. These are mine ideas for your classic S&S game:

1. XP for gold spent
2. XP for hits taken
3. XP for sites and wonders visited and explored
4. XP for new facts learned from NPCs

How about that? I'm still undecided about XP for spells invented or magic items enchanted. The latter I'd prefer to be the domain of NPCs and the former makes me think more of Ars Magica than S&S.

An interesting take on character classes/types in T&T

I just read a post at The Grand Tapestry, linking to this. That is one seriously interesting take on Types in T&T! When gaining a level you can "shift tracks" within a type. In old D&D and T&T there's fairly few classes, but they contain a lot. A fighter can be both a "paladin" and a "barbarian", basically they are the same class but different takes on the Fighting Man. Now, imagine that to be spelled out that way, and levelling up means broadening your scope as a Fighter?

Personally I think this ties in quite nicely with this post and others by The Fighter, eh... Paladin I mean.

Are you getting better at killing things, is that what experience means? The Old Way shows us the path of flexibility. Me like.

I might be zeroed out by gaming hiatus and an autumn cold, but some guys write some really good posts out there!

More thoughts about experience

I read these two posts about how different designers have handled the idea of experience point awards. On this blog I have expressed my great enthusiasm for the idea of gaining xp for gold. To be more precise I think the Arnesonian way to award for gold spent is even better, but still it's xp for gold. The posts by the Paladin made me think again of how to award the behaviour you want to promote in your game.

In Rolemaster you get XP for a bunch of things, a little like in The Fantasy Trip. Looking back at the rules now I realize we must have glossed over much of that when me and my friends played MERP/RM. You get XP for miles travelled, Spells cast, Saves, Damage taken, enemies killed and a few more. If someone doubts that rules for experience strongly influence style of play, let me tell you how weird that last one can get. We had more than one fight become quite a farce when at the end the opponent looked haggard enough to get killed in the next good blow. Suddenly everyone charged in, pushing friend and foe aside to get in that killing blow. It might be realistic but it sure wasn't fun. It was the first one to go.

You have probably all read about how old school play is more about exploring the unknown, right? How about that idea of XP per mile travelled? Is it feasible? Jeff Rients wrote about it, and his take was very interesting I think. Jeff's take is a little more sophisticated than just XP/mile. It have been sloshing around in my brain since I first read it, and I want to write something that uses that idea.

Another cool idea is that you probably learn more from your mistakes than from what you already know. In Tunnels & Trolls you get experience when doing Saving Rolls, failed or not. I always liked that, and have more than once seen people try wild things beacuse "The worst thing that could happen is I get some experience, right?". Me like. Imagine a game where you only get experience when you fail!

Now imagine this

* XP targets for points in the adventure which necessitate some curiosity and exploration or are somehow more majestic than usual.
* XP everytime you fail relative to the margin of failure (multiplied by level, maybe)
* A flat bonus for every crit done or received
* xp for gold, spent on hedonistic pursuits

I want to play that game!

It's all about killing things

Almost everyone in gaming have heard the old adage that D&D is all about killing things and taking their stuff. We might all have different ideas about the truth value of that statement, and some of its implications. I have now twice been behind the screen for a game of 3:16, and I am enjoying some carnage. It's a game that's by the book is only about killing things. Usually you don't even take their stuff, you just kill some more of them.

Taking a few moments to browse the web for discussions about XP awards and game systems for advancement and rewarding this or that behaviour, I find myself seeing a lot of the same stuff gamers have been talking about for decades! 3:16 is awfully neat in both avoiding all that stuff, and embracing it.

Imagine a game where you will get better from killing things, only. Imagine that you also can narrate, not the GM you, how you fail and succeed. This is a marriage the newest of the New School design (Forge style) and the simplistic summary of Old School gaming with less focus on story.

So what kind game is the mechanic supporting? Well, you have rules for killing, and rules for using a flashback to get out of trouble. That's it, simplifying a bit. But, this is one of those new-fangled "story games". It's probably not strange that for some of us, games which gives us a rough sketch of a PC will be the ones where we manage to develop some real personalities, through play. We have seen some very interesting character development in our two sessions of 3:16, and all we have been doing have been killing things.

Try it out, it sure is enlightening.

Ways to spend money in a T&T game

I have been thinking about money, experience and T&T a long time. Long time reader of my blog knows that I really like the xp for gold rule in old D&D. I idea behind it is good, and I have been wanting to try it for T&T a while now. Ken St. Andre used that rule for T&T in earlier editions, but decided to skip it when it became clear that it caused problems with Monty Haul campaigns. With the provision that you have to spend the gold to exchange it for Adventure Points I think that problem can be avoided. Worth testing, I think.

When I refereed a weekly campaign of 7th ed T&T it became clear quite quickly that after a few delves to the megadungeon everyone had the best armour and weapon they could wield. If you take a look at the price list in the T&T, you find that most of the gear is affordable. The only thing that costs a lot is buying new spells. My players pooled their resources and bought a few key spells like Whammy, Omnipotent Eye and Poor Baby. I will talk about Dura-Spell Battery some other day. But, having bought those they had what they needed and once again had an a lot of loose cash.

Some might say it's a very GM centred problem to have to much gold in a campaign. While it's true to some extent I think I was fairly restrictive and when the characters did hit upon a hoard it was fun and not Monty Haul. They fought for it.

What can you spend your hard earned gold on then? Well, I guess you can buy magic items, but I like to think they feel more interesting if they are found in a dark dungeon than made to order in a craftman's shop. I did let my players buy some items, and I probably should have but more magic treasure in the game instead. But, I like to think that some of the items they did find felt interesting and wondrous enough.

But today I read something about ablative armour, again. For those who don't know, protective gear used to be worn down in earlier editions. I kind of dislike the idea of book keeping reduced hits on armour, but Dan in the post linked above gave me a new reason to reconsider it. He mentions having to spend money on repairing your gear once now and then when they take punishment from action. That is a very interesting way to part the characters from some money! I had never thought of it from that standpoint before. Worth considering, I guess.

A Swords & Wizardry experience richer

So, finally we managed to arrange for a session of S&W, and I even got to play. This last autumn I got the impression that everyone is ill all the time in this country. Even tonight one of our players couldn't show up, and one was ok but had a slight cold. Gaming prevailed.

It was interesting to have a group with so mixed experiences of D&D. Where one player was solidly a 3rd ed player, another have been playing since the seventies and are a regular 1st ed gamer who have also played 3rd and 4th. Then there was me who loves the old school, but have a solid knowledge and experience of 3rd & 4th and just disagree with it. It would be an experiment with old school to see how well it went over. Luckily we complemented each other and we had a good time.

While I had expecting roll 3d6 in order we actually had the generous option of 4d6 drop the worst. Those characters were good! I wanted to play a M-U and got the stats for it. Naturally, I started with Sleep prepared.

We got a background briefing, and it was clear that our DM had been working on the setting and the history. If I hadn't actually been talking to him about dungeons I might have become a bit worried there. Some haggling and in character interaction we positioned ourselves in our party roles and established some character traits. Since my fellow players rolled far worse than me for starting gold, I graciously offered to lend them some of my money. Naturally, I charged interest. Stiff interest. Miser? Me?

Then we set off for the ruined city. While the setting info had given me some sense of wonder about the olden days when the Empire was around I had already forgotten most of it. I always do that unless I take notes. I knew there was a ruined city, and we wanted to go there.

We scouted somewhat and got a good view of the city. Most of it was rubble, but some greater structures stood. Dice rolled on the table and we noticed some flying monsters taking off from some still standing tower. Lucky us. Taking cover we kept out of sight and nothing bad happened. Something bad did happen to a goblin skulking about in the city, he managed to get a throwing axe lodged in his back. Clumsy goblin.

Since it was late we had to find shelter, and did find just that in another tower. We had to fight a monster who poped out of a glass globe someone unfriendly tossed at us as soon we entered the tower. A seriously grumpy owlbear was dispatched and my poor mage missed with his darts five rounds in a row! The melee fighters was good to have around. After some negotiations we could enter the tower and managed to calm the crazy hermit living there. While everyone were busy talking to the hired hands I decided to kill the crazy hermit and take his library of glass globes as my own. For some strange reason it turned out my party was squeamish and after the deed expressed horror. At least he wouldn't slit their throats at night. We took possession of his camp and grabbed what valuables there were. That was the reason we wanted to seek adventure, right? Having counted the gold we decided this was enough for one session.

S&W was easy enough, with a very quick combat system. Much could be accomplished without being bogged down in rules, and I felt we got that thrill of exploration even though we hadn't even found the entrance to the catacombs under the city. Clearing out a building room by room is a special feeling. The only real discussion we had about the rules was about xp bonuses. One player felt they were unfair and undermined the idea of the party. I have been thinking that myself sometimes, since it's a reward given over and over again for someone being lucky with random generation of stats. A very good player might be punished even if he does everything right, while a player who lucked out and rolled 13 both for CHA and WIS suddenly advance quicker. I really hate the idea of a "balanced" system, but that rule is not one of my favourite. Letting go of it, without building a sense of player entitlement probably is on my wishlist. I've thought it before, but real play made it stand out.

Now I hope we can make this more than a one shot, and that there will be some regular S&W gaming. Our DM and his betrothed are expecting their first child pretty soon so we will see how that affect things. After some time at home with a newborn you probably want to meet some other adults, I hope. At least I now have had some S&W experience, and it was positive!

Old School. More than a feeling?

Some of you might have read Grognardia a short while ago, where a quote from Ken St. Andre was commented upon. I liked it myself and nodded in agreement until I thought some more.

If this snippet of wisdom from Ken St. Andre should work in play, you would have to train your players!

I have tried to use dopplegangers as a monster in play. It failed miserably, since the players didn't trust nobody. Guess what happened when they found someone chained in a dungeon asked to be freed? Guess how likely they would have been to act like Ken suggests?

In order to have your players try to talk themselves out of troubles instead of just charging into a TPK, they need to be trained to do it. Old School play is not just a feeling, and this proves it. Any kind of dungeon dressing, or any kind of "first edition" monster collection can be brought to the table without any old school play happening.

Few xp for monsters but much xp for gold is an excellent way to achieve the training I'm talking about. I'm beginning to wonder this was removed from T&T? Yes, it was in there back in the beginning. Ken once mentioned it was taken out, so unless I misunderstood him it should have been in there.

More about experience mechanics

For those of you who don't remember Rolemaster, this post by Zzarchov at Unofficial Games might be of interest. It's worth reading for the old RM players as well, I might add. Tweaking experience and using spell casting, exploring and objective based experience are all interesting options.

Gygax and Arneson's best idea - coins

I have talked about coins before. Now there was a good post over at Black Dougal, that once again got me thinking. I want to pot the spotlight on the design effects of using collecting gold as a measurement of player advancement. According to me the fact that gp = xp is a strike of genius with many interesting effects on the game. I will view both of D&D and T&T through the golden lens of a coin.

In Basic D&D a suit of plate will cost you 60 gp. In AD&D it will cost you 400 gp, and in T&T 7 th ed a suit of heavy plate costs 1300 gp and in 6 th ed it will cost 600 gp. In BD&D and AD&D you get xp for gold, and in T&T you don't. In AD&D you have to pay for training to level up, and in T&T you have to pay the Wizard's Guild to get new spells. All this will of course influence how the game plays.

In my old D&D3 campaign (which I have written about before) I managed to get into the situation where my players considered coins as useless treasure. They barely bothered with gold, unless they got enough of it to buy a magic item they wanted. In my T&T campaign I have now started to see some of that as well, and I was wondering about the effects of the gp as xp rule.

In T&T, what happen when you have gotten the best armor and weapon you can get? You still have to pay the Wizard's Guild if you're a spellcaster, but if you're a fighter you probably only want gold to buy magic items. The latter is not something I really appreciate. Getting magic items to order have a high chance of making the wonder of magic turn into the blandness of Wallmart.

In D&D you very easy get the best armor and weapons. Frankly, surprisingly easy! After that you will still be interested in gold, since then you need to start saving for a stronghold when you reach level 9. When you have to pay for training it makes even more sense. I think this is a very good way to make sure that at all levels of play you still have a reason to go adventuring.

Here we can now see how the simple design of gp as xp have many small effects on play. Since you get a lot more xp from gold than you'll ever get from killing monsters, it encourage you to get your money without combat. In T&T you get most of your points from Saving Rolls so it has a similar effect. I like how those games make murder of other intelligent beings something that might happen, but not the point of the game. All these points of how this rule influence play impress me. To achieve so much with one rule is impressive. It's good design in my book if you can get much mileage out of a rule like that.

The shift from AD&D 2 nd ed onward to giving most of the xp from combat, combined with the “wallmartification” of magic, is the biggest shift in how the game is played throughout its history. I'm not sure I like it. In my 3 rd ed campaign it clearly became ridiculous when gold wasn't “worth it's weight in gold” any longer.

For T&T I'm thinking about experience. The gp = xp is neat, and I wonder if I'd “fix” a problem that isn't there if I try to import it? I do think it is a bit troublesome when a fighter basically don't have any more reason to get gold when he has gotten his plate armor. Sure, he can chip in and help buying some spells which he'll benefit from, but it isn't the same thing. From some conversations on Trollhalla lately I'm wondering if the experience rules don't could use a tweak or two.